Installment #1 in Monolisticle's Ongoing Campaign Against the "Internet of Endless Listicles."
—Includes IN-DEPTH interview—
By Derek Pletch, founder of monolisticle.com
With Luther Brown, there are no clichés. There are no trodden paths. There are no been-there-seen-thats. Everything he creates is fresh, powerful, polydimensional newness.
Even if you've never heard of this Emmy-nominated hip-hop choreographer, you most likely know his work—and you definitely know the artists he's worked with: Lizzo, Ozuna, Gwen Stefani, Jennifer Lopez, Nicki Minaj, Janet Jackson, Ciara, Diddy, Alicia Keys, Britney Spears, Brandy, Agnez Mo, French Montana, and on and on and on.
Luther Brown recently expanded his artistry to the other side of the camera. Into directing. After collaborating with Spittn Image on music video projects for his compilation album "The Downbeat Project," he signed with the production company, directing this brilliant video featuring the mesmerizing multi-talented star, Miss Prissy—the Queen of Krump.
Last week I had the pleasure of interviewing Luther Brown. In the process, we spent a lot of time laughing. He is living proof that an artist doesn't have to be brooding and tortured to deliver genius. He's positive. Energetic. And he is a man who clearly enjoys life—and you can see that in the explosively joyful effect his work has on audiences worldwide.
INTERVIEW
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Derek Pletch: So you’re out in LA, right? You get some lunch yet?
Luther Brown: Haha! (laughs) I just ate, actually. I’m out here in my backyard.
D: Great. So I got you on a full stomach. That’s always good, right?
LB: (Laughs) Yes, definitely.
D: You don’t want to talk to people when they’re waiting to have lunch.
LB: (Laughs) You might get a whole different kind of answers.
D: Yeah, completely different interview.
LB: Hilarious.
D: Well cool. I don’t know how much time you have. I want to be respectful of your time, of course.
LB: Yeah, we got time…this is cool. I got you.
D: Ok, great. Well, hey, thank you again. I’m a big fan.
LB: Ah, man. Thanks.
D: I’ve been following your work for a while. When we started this platform—Monolisticle—which is all about what we consider to be the very best of culture, arts, music, food, and entertainment, I thought of you...
LB: I appreciate that.
D: So the other day I watched the interview you did a couple years ago with Kristyn Burtt ( @thekristynburtt ) on her show “To the Point.”
LB: Oh my gosh, yes!
D: It was great. She’s amazing.
LB: Oh yeah, (laughs) that’s cool, yes!
D: It was fascinating to hear what a big part of Jamaican culture that dance is. Of course it made sense, but the degree to which you were describing it. That there was a new dance move going around almost every day…and almost everybody in the country knew it?...
LB: Yes, EVERYBODY. (Laughs)
D: That is amazing...
LB: …Old. Young. Everybody. I think it’s like a culture thing from Africa. Where you know it’s just in the lines of an everyday life thing. A lot of us are like that. A lot of us don’t look at it as—we’re dancing in a certain way. It’s just kind of…natural. Which explains why a lot of people don’t do that as their career in the Caribbean…
D: …Because they already have that expression in everyday life?…
LB: They don’t consider it a career. It’s shitty and it’s changing as the years go by as America and the rest of the world has been living off of it. And I think the Caribbean is picking that up now, where it’s like, ‘oh it’s an actual career? People actually do that?’ It’s not like, you know, ballet. I think in the Caribbean if you’re going to do jazz or tap or ballet, that’s [considered] real dance. But the stuff we do in the street, or the back yard, or that everybody does, that’s not, like, real dance. Which is crazy, because that’s the part that inspires the entire universe…
D: Yeah, right. Exactly.
LB: You know?
D: Absolutely.
LB: But it’s just kind of like, for them, it’s not that.
D: So it sounds like you didn’t have much formal dance training. You were learning dance from the people around you?
LB: Yes, right.
D: The first time I noticed your work was on So You Think You Can Dance...
LB: Yes…
D: It’s a great show, because it expanded the popularity of dance in The United States. And the different genres of dance. So for a lot of people that maybe didn’t grow up with a dance background, it helped them get a better understanding of it. All the various styles. But I have to tell you, that “Yummy” piece that you did, wow. I believe it was part of the package you were nominated for an Emmy for last year…
LB: Oh my gosh, yes! That was such a good time!
D: I have to say, that is one of my all-time favorite pieces of choreography. It just killed me.
LB: For real?!
D: Absolutely.
LB: Thank you. That piece was so…fun.
D: Well I can imagine. I mean, you’re working with this Gwen Stefani and Pharrell Williams song and just the whole vibe of that piece as a starting place for a choreographer—that must have been pretty cool…
LB: It was super fucking cool. It’s like, first of all, I’d always wanted to do a number like that on So You Think. Especially in the U.S.. Because you know I did the show in Canada for like four years before that...
D: That’s right.
LB: …But in the U.S., you know, it kinda worked out all the years I put in, that they finally let me do what I wanted to do. And I grabbed that song. ‘Cause number one—that song’s a problem, anyway (laughs)…
D: It’s an awesome song…
LB…and I was working with Gwen, too. So I was kind of super re-inspired by that. I’m like, ‘Yo, I know I’m the hip-hop guy and I’m only supposed to do ratchet stuff, but just let me do what I do.’ And they let me actually do what I wanted to do. And, so that number for me is actually one of my favorite numbers I’ve ever done on the show.
D: So do you not consider that piece to be a hip-hop choreography?
LB: No, I do. But, being on a show that for so many years, they had Nappytabs, Shane Sparks, they had a certain type of hip-hop on there. And because they had that for so long, in their minds that’s what hip hop was, and everything else was really not hip-hop, or it wasn’t going to work because it’s not what people knew. And so when I came on, I brought a different energy and I don’t think they realized that hip-hop comes in different colors and different vibes, you know?
D: Yeah, exactly. Right.
LB: And my vibe is party vibe. I wasn’t a b-boy. I wasn’t a popper. I wasn’t a locker. I was kickin’ and playin’ Bobby Brown, you know what I mean?
D: My Prerogative.
LB: Yeah, and that’s hip-hop. It’s not just the poppers, or the this, or the that. It definitely isn’t contemporary hip-hop. And it took them a minute to figure it out. And accept it. And once they let me come in and show them that this is different textures, that’s when it turned up. And so, I think after that they started to really realize, ‘Oh, okay, so not everything has to have five sound effects, or has to be contemporary pop for you to feel it.’ The reason why hip-hop is was it is, is because you felt it, you know what I mean?...
D: I know exactly what you mean.
LB: …and my groove and stuff is about the feel. And I’m like, just give me this damn “Yummy” record and let me just do what the hell I want! (Laughs)
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D: (Laughs) I know what you mean when you’re talking about feeling it. Growing up as a teenager, I was into—and this is going to maybe seem like a weird comparison. But I was really into punk music, because it had that aggressiveness. It had that power to it, right? You could physically feel it.
LB: Yes, yes.
D: Like when you’re dancing to punk music, it is a very visceral, energetic, physical thing—
LB: Yes it is!
D: And I appreciate the same thing about great hip-hop.
LB: Yehhhhh, because punk is a lot of expression. It’s a lot of opinions.
D: Exactly. And a lot of angst.
LB: Yes!
D: And there’s even anger. It’s like…it’s rebellious…
LB: 100%.
D: And there’s that same kind of rebelliousness in hip-hop that I love.
LB: Yes. 100%...Yeah. You are right about that.
D: So yeah, I saw that “Yummy” piece and I was like, ‘Okay, WHAT WAS THAT?!’
LB: (Laughs)
D: Because there’s one move in particular. It’s about a minute-and-a-half into the “Yummy” video, if you go on YouTube and watch it. There’s a bit where the dancers, I can’t remember their names [ @jayjay_dixonbey and @dariushickman ]. It’s almost as if [Jay Jay] is dancing at an angle and his feet are kicking out. And [Darius] is doing this crazy vertical thing with his leg…
LB: Yes! I know what you’re talking about…
D: …It almost defies physics when I watch it. I’m like ‘How is that even happening?’
LB: (Laughs) Aaaah, man, this is so cool! Number one—that year’s cast was insane...
D: Yeah, definitely.
LB: …And that boy got so much flavor. And he was a contemporary boy.
D: You’re right, he was.
LB: If you’ve got a pocket, you’ve got a pocket, you know what I mean? And he had a pocket. And so I let him do that move and he started it off, and then everybody copied it.
D: (Laughs) Yeah, well it doesn’t seem like that move would be easy to copy, like physically—
LB: (Laughs)
D: I mean, I came up as an athlete and there’s no way—I would end up falling on my face if I tried that…
LB: (Laughs) Man…thank you so much.
D: I appreciate the difficulty of it. And when I watch back some of the videos from the show, the way your work gets the crowd going, it’s pretty astonishing. The reaction people have to the pieces. When it’s done, it’s like this…explosion…
LB: Man, the energy in the building is…number one—we are in there…stressed. But when the energy gets hyped and the crowd appreciates it and responds to it, it’s the most gratifying. ‘Cause you’re literally stressed out the entire time, all day, until it starts—
D: (Laughs) I believe it.
LB: (laughs) …And you’re like, ‘Please don’t mess up, please crowd get it. Because the camera’s going to come to me in two seconds and I have to smile, no matter what the outcome is…
D: (Laughs) That’s right…
LB: …And all the choreographers are holding each other’s hands, but underneath the chair—it’s a whole movie over there.
D: I can feel that, as a viewer. Because I’ve heard what it’s like for choreographers on that show. You don’t have much time at all…
LB: Nooo! (laughs)
D: …And you don’t know until the dancers walk into the studio what you’re dealing with, right?—
LB: (Laughs)
D: …and then you have to improvise and figure it out–
LB: Yep. And know when to abandon ship and start a new one. It’s great though. It’s a good time.
D: I would imagine it’s like what you were saying. When you’re working on a piece it’s gotta be in the back of your mind the whole time the fact that you’re going to be sitting in the audience. Because that applause is so honest, right? Sometimes wonderfully honest, and sometimes brutally honest.
LB: (Laughs) Or brutally honest, yes! And not to mention you have the judges, too. And their critique. Of the dancers and the number. And all of this is happening real time, as you’re getting it. You know what I mean?
D: I do.
LB: So it’s like...a triple dagger.
D: (Laughs) Pretty amazing.
LB: Yeah.
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D: So…how about creative process? Can we talk about that a bit?
LB: Oh sure, yeah.
D: One of the reasons I like to talk about creative process is that—no matter which creative field you’re in—if you’re a creative person, you struggle with and work through a lot of the same things. Whether you’re a writer or director or dancer or visual artist. So when you’re working on a project, how do you begin with it? Let’s say it’s a choreography you’re doing. Do you begin with an idea, or is it more about a feeling or emotion you want to evoke?
LB: Well, okay. There’s like different ways that I do it. If it’s for an artist—I’ll use Gwen Stefani as an example—if I’m going to do another number for her, she tells me how she felt when she wrote it. Or what she wants to feel behind her when she’s performing. And then I listen to that, and then I take it to my…I use my garage. My garage is where I create all this shit. In this garage. It’s dark. I got these certain lights up in there. It’s like a vibe...
D: Really?
LB: Yeah. I go in there and I turn off. It’s pretty dark. With like little spotlights here and there. And different colors. And I listen to the record and I listen to the story Gwen told me, and then I envision it. And then I just start freestyling it, you know?
D: Oh, absolutely.
LB: And then I try to tell a story on it. If it’s a piece that I’m doing for So You Think, I tell them what my concept is, I know what my wardrobe is gonna look like, I know what the lighting is supposed to feel like. And then I use that as my base. So once I get in there I’m like, ‘Okay I’m going to pretend that the light is on me and pretending that I’m in that outfit, and what’s the story I’m telling?’ You know—how’s it going to start. I mean, I just let the music take me there, whether it’s the bassline, or it’s the lyrics. Because sometimes you just go with the lyrics, and the lyrics tell you where to go…
D: Right…
LB: …Or if the lyrics ain’t talking about shit…(laughs)…
D: (Laughs)
LB: …so then you listen to what the beat’s giving you…
D: Yeah.
LB: And then I kind of go off of the bassline and the high-hats and the snares, and it just kind of builds. It builds and I tell myself a story as I’m building it.
D: Wow.
LB: ‘Cause it’s not always about 500 steps. You really wanna take them on a ride in the piece. And I do that with everything I do. Even if I’m teaching a class, I want the routine to have ups and downs in it. If I’m doing a class, or for these conventions that I’m on, I go in there, too, and I’ve got some people in there. I always have a couple heads in there. I just start to go and they pick it up, and they learn it, you know? And then I pace it, and then I look at it. And then I keep moving. I just let it come out. It just comes out. And the beat is kind of what takes me there…
D: Got it. Yeah, that’s exactly what I was trying to get to. I mean, a lot of the questions I had around process, you just answered quite a lot of them. Like I was going to ask you about where your place was to work, and where you come up with ideas, because you didn’t have studios where you grew up, right?
LB: Oh no. Nothing.
D: That’s interesting…your garage. That’s where it happens.
LB: Yeah.
D: Do you ever sometimes just have a specific move or movement that you start with and then you expand out from that?...
LB: Sometimes. It’s funny. Because sometimes, depending on the record, I kind of have a move that I—it’s like a vocabulary. Sometimes you start off with the same—not step—but the same combination a little bit, and then you go from there…
D: And that becomes like the thread?
LB: Yeah, and then it kind of becomes the thread and then it goes. I think the thread for me—it might not be the particular step—but it’s something that’s a groove that gets it from the top. So I always have to find some groove pocket that’s going to set the tone for where I’m going…
D: Got it. Do you, so a lot of artists—in different creative fields—they collect ideas and “sketches,” for lack of a better word. They’ll be out in the world doing whatever, right? And they’ll see something that inspires an idea. And they’ll write it down. Or make a mental note. Do you ever do that? Are you ever kind of out at a movie, or out at a party or whatever, and you see something and it just sparks, ‘I’m going to have to use that at some point?’
LB: Yeah, it happens all the time. I’ll be at a movie and a certain scene happens and the lighting, the way they lit the scene or the way the camera moves up. I’m like, ‘Oooh—I could totally see that in one of the pieces. Or I could shoot it like that. And if you kept the dance like that. And see stuff like that.’ Or sometimes you’re scrolling different pictures, because I like to look at different images, fashion stuff. And there’s a lot of really cool images that come up, and I’m like, ‘Ooooo!’ Or someone does a shape with their body or something and I’m like, ‘Ahh that’s a vibe. I could totally use that.’ And then I screen-grab it, and then when things come up, I grab that back, and at some point in this number I need something to feel like this. And I don’t necessarily take exactly what they did, but I want to get the feeling of that.
D: Yeah, absolutely. I totally get it. It inspires something. For me it just gives you a different perspective on your piece. Like if you came at it that way, what would it open up for you?
LB: Yep. It’s like I’ve been looking at this girl named Sho Madiozi from South Africa right now. She’s an artist. And she’s online in the middle of the quarantine and she was getting different producers to send her music from all over Africa. And people were setting us up. It was her and her two friends. They both danced, so I’m assuming one was her choreographer, or one might be creative. And they were playing this music. And they were just…getting it. And these grooves were all these different African grooves. And I was just watching it like,…’This is where I need to go [creatively] when this quarantine is done.’ Like, I’m looking at how it was really simple moves. But it was so flow-y. And I was just like, ‘Yeah, when I start to get back in the garage…’
D: (Laughs) Gotta do something with that…
LB: Yeah, I wanna feel like THAT. I wanna be able to deliver a whole movie of steps that feel like that. Where it’s just so pocketed and groovy, but it’s not crazy wild. But it’s just calm. And so that inspired me. So I wanna move with that feeling…
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D: As artists, we’re always trying to do something new and different. And I think that’s what stands out in your work. That sense of unexpectedness. The surprise factor. Is that something you’re trying to get to, or is it something that naturally comes out in the work?
LB: I think sometimes I try for it. But when I try for it (laughs), it makes it difficult. But then when I don’t, when I just feel things, that’s when it happens. For example, we were about to do the Britney [Spears] Vegas Residency and I was doing three or four songs. And one of the records I was listening to, it was like, ‘Ooooo, I need a moment right here.’ And everybody was like, ‘What are you trying to find?’ ‘I just need a MOMENT, and I can’t find it.’ And I was like, ‘It’s gotta be so simple and repetitive.’ And it wasn’t coming to me. Because I was trying to force it. And I just kept on playing it. And then…I just did this thing—I always do some dumb shit, cause I’m an idiot sometimes—
D: (Laughs)
LB: —I like to laugh a lot. Anybody who’s done sessions with me knows, it’s always a good time, because we laugh. So I’m laughing, and just doing some dumb shake thing, and I was like, ‘Oooo, shake and throw your head to the left, then put it to the right.’ And it was perfect. It turned out to be the moment.
D: Sweet.
LB: And even though we didn’t get to do it, Britney ended up posting it, and that particular moment became an online meme. Which is hilarious.
D: Brilliant.
LB: But in every number that I do—especially on So You Think—I always have…a moment. They’re like, ‘Where’s the Luther moment?!’ That’s what Nigel [Lythgoe] and them always say.
D: (Laughs)
LB: And I’ll be like, ‘Uuuuh...’
D: Yeah, expectations.
LB: ‘It just happens. Don’t ask me for it. Because it just happens.’ Because if I try to put it in, you get nothing. You know, there’s always a move like that that ends up being in there, but sometimes, you just gotta do what you do, and somehow the moment finds its way in there…
D: Right. You can’t force it. And you hit on something really interesting with the Britney moment you mentioned. This willingness to be silly, to let yourself be off the point, and that led to something. Where you’re not worried about what people are thinking—
LB: That’s normally when you come up with some magic.
D: Right.
LB: You know?
D: Yeah, that’s so cool. And that’s a great segue to my next question, because I was just about to ask you…how hard is the creative process for you? Because for a lot of artists, it’s a lot of pain and torture and all of that. How does that work for you?
LB: Well, for example, when I did Janet The Metamorphosis—her residency—there’s a number, “Knowledge,” that I had to do. Number one—the record is insane. And it’s iconic. And the message from the record is super iconic. It’s from the Rhythm Nation album, so it kind of had that same message. It was literally Knowledge, Rhythm Nation, all was a part of it, and State of the World—all part of that energy. So I had to try to find a way to make it powerful and serious, but still make it fun and groovy. So I tortured myself. But I was in there really trying to capture the essence of those days. But make it now. And still try to sell that energy. And that was a little difficult, because I’m a fan of Janet and those days, so I didn’t want to fuck it up. If I was watching someone else do it, I’d be like, ‘Don’t fuck it up…’
D: Oh yeah, those are high expectations…
LB: Yeah, there’s a lot of high expectations for that. Especially if you’re going to make it new. So I had to figure that shit out. It was…a lot of stress. Not like depression stress. But I was holding myself to a higher expectation and I had to kind of go into that. Most of the time when I create it, I kind of move fast with it. Because I’ve gotten to where I trust myself. As in, I don’t second-guess too much. When it feels right, I know it’s right. Even if it doesn’t look like a lot, if it feels right to me, then I feel…’this is nice. I’m in it. I’m here.’
D: Yeah, you’re in that creative pocket.
LB: It’s tricky, because depending on what you’re doing, it’s different. For example, I just did these two videos for Ozuna. He’s a Latin artist. Super amazing Latin artist. Just literally the day before yesterday we shot two videos down in Miami. And the music, one of the songs is faster, dancy. The record time has a lot of repetitive beats. It’s like dancehall, but it’s a lot of Spanish, a lot of different things. So it’s a little different [for me]. If it’s dancehall, I’d totally understand what you’re saying, where you’re coming from, or what the energy is. So even though the beat’s repetitive, I can find my own story in it, you know? [But] in reggaeton, it’s a lot of the same beats, and you don’t really understand what they’re saying. And even when you get a translation, the words are pretty vague sometimes. And so that takes a lot, because I want to make sure this shit is hot! But not look like we’re doing some typical gyrations, you know? I’m in there trying to really find it. And find the story. Find something out of the same beat…
D: Yeah, that’s tricky.
LB: That shit takes me down sometimes. And a lot of times they want female dancers. They don’t really want male dancers. So I have to go into that head. And I’m a male, and I don’t move like a woman. But I do know what I want to see, and my female vocabulary is not as diverse as my male vocabulary. So I’m in there trying to make it still have a form…
D: It’s interesting, because you’ve worked with so many female dancers and that piece with Mariah Russell ( @themariahrussell ) and Sophie Pittman ( @sophie_sparkles ). Which was amazing.
LB: That wasn’t as difficult because the record was…ratchet (Laughs). The record is just some ratchet…ass…shit. And I get that. I get that. I get that.
D: It’s your thing…
LB: You know, some of this stuff, guys can do it, too. So I can just tweak it. Between Jamaican ratchet and American ratchet, there’s a lot of things I can do (Laughs).
D: So you have ways when you’re struggling creatively to push through it…
LB: Yes, yes.
D: Is a lot of it about attitude and outlook?
LB: 100 percent.
D: With me, I have to go work out and clear my head.
LB: You know what? I just surrender—to the moment. I’ll be stressing about it the whole day. Because I know my rehearsal’s starting at 8 o’clock tonight. Up until 7:59, I’m like, ‘what…am I gonna…do?’
D: (Laughs)
LB: Sometimes I just play the song over and over and I got the vibe. But sometimes nothing comes out. Nothing comes out. And then, I feel like the pressure forces it out of me. So when my crew gets to my house, once the doorbell rings, it’s like, ‘Lu you gotta find it, ‘cause they’re here.’
D: (Laughs) Yeah.
LB: When we get to the garage, I don’t like wasting time, because I’m very much about respecting people’s time. So I’m like, we’re not going to be here for 16 hours. Once people get here, it kind of, like,…it snaps. I’m like, ‘You’re gonna find it.’ And then I get into the room, and I always say the same things every time. I say ‘Ya’ll, I don’t know what’s coming out. I don’t know what we’re doing today. It’s just going to flow, so don’t judge…’
D: Oh wow, okay.
LB:…and then we just…Go.
D: What about that collaboration? How much do you depend on it, or thrive on it? It sounds like you go into these sessions and you’re like, ‘I’m going to figure it out with these people in the room…’
LB: Yeah. And it’s like, I know a lot of choreographers do it, I don’t know how they do it, and I’m not even judging them for doing it. ‘Cause secretly sometimes I’m like, ‘It’s smarter, I would probably save myself a headache or two.” Where they come in and get people to choreograph steps for them. And then they pick the best parts, and piece it together. I can’t do that. I bring people in who are super incredible. But they also understand my brain. So they pick it up right away. If I’m in there by myself, I can come up with the exact same steps with or without people in the room. But when people are in the room, I’m able to split it out. See it on them. Step back and look at it. And then edit it. And then go back and add onto it.
D: When you say “edit it,” you mean mentally, right? How do you—
LB: I’ll do this move and then go into that move and I’m kind of going in and out of it. And then while I’m teaching it to them, I’m like ‘Ooooo, instead of doing this, let’s do this.’ And then I tweak it. And then they do it a couple times. And then I stand back and look at them doing it. And then I’m like, ‘Ooooo, okay no. You know what? Take the hand out. Let me see it like that. Okay, put your hand on your hip for that part. Let me see what it looks like. Okay, what if you go behind this person and instead of putting your arm out this way, put it that way.’ And then I look at it and I’m like, ‘That’s what it is. Okay, cool.’ And then I get back in the mirror and I start adding onto it. And it kind of goes like that.
D: So then how do you document the process of building a piece? You’re not sketching things out? You’re not videotaping yourself?
LB: No.
D: So this is all in your head?
LB: (Laughs) It’s all in my crazy-ass head!
D: Wow. How?...that just blows my mind, honestly…
LB: It’s all in my head. And at the end of the night, everybody’s like, ‘Yo, did we just do this?’ And I’m like, ‘Yo, we just got through this shit in 3 hours. We just got this whole thing done.’ But the thing is, we’re into the zone, and they’re so good at learning my stuff, that they pick it up so fast. And I don’t have to clean it as I’m teaching it. I mean, I do clean it, but I don’t have to re-teach them from scratch, because they already got me. And a lot of them are like, ‘I don’t know—I was faking it all the way through until we got to the end.’ Because I put it out so fast (laughs)…
D: (Laughs).
LB:…and we just keep going and then an hour turns around and we’ve got a whole song done…
D: Geez.
LB: And we’re like, ‘Yo, how the hell did we just get through all of that?’ And they’re like, ‘Yo, how did we do that!?’
D: Yeah, ‘how did we do that?’
...Wait—so nobody is filming this at all?
LB: No. Number one—I don’t even like looking at myself in the mirror. That’s why I’ve got the lights dimmed in a certain way.
D: In the garage…
LB: I can see me, but it’s not a big bright studio.
D: Yeah.
LB: Even when I’m in a studio, I always ask for the room that I can dim the lights. So I’m not the one to watch myself back. ‘Cause I’ll spend time hating what I look like more than looking at the steps.
D: I just…I just think that’s amazing. Because you’ve heard the expression: ‘Please tell me you were filming that,’ right?
LB: (Laughs)
D: …So you just keep it in your head, and then you can jump forward to several days later and ‘Okay, we’re going to get together now and build on that?’
LB: Yeah.
D: Alright, well, I have a ton of respect for that. Amazing.
LB: (Laughs) Yeah.
D: So I know that one of your influences growing up was Bobby Brown [@kingbobbybrown ]. Were there any other choreographers or anybody else who inspired you?
LB: This guy named Swoop. Yeah, he’s like 'The Dance Father' [ swoopdaddi ]. He’s my inspiration all day. His choreography is just…everything. His flow is ridiculous. He’s one of my main inspirations…
D: Cool.
LB: …and there are these two girls, Cicely [Bradley] and Olisa [Thompson]. From New York. They used to work with Missy Elliot. The way they thought, and the way they heard music tripped me out. I was like, ‘That’s incredible.” I remember Missy came out with “She’s a –––––– record. Anyway, that record. Came out with ‘She’s a bitch’ record. And I remember I made up a routine [for it] and I talked to my crew, and we were performing it…And then I saw the video. And I watched that choreography and I was like, ‘Ooooo, guys—remix. We’re not doing none of this anymore.’…
D: Wow.
LB: …Because the way they heard the music, and the way they found the pocket…tripped me out. And Cicely, Olisa, and I ended up becoming super good friends. We’re friends to this day. We totally, totally connected. Hired them for some stuff. They’re some of my biggest inspirations, too…
D: Very cool.
LB: I think because I write music, and I like harmonies, and I like arrangements, when I hear music I hear stuff in the music that people don’t choreograph to anyway. But I hear it. So it kind of ties my choreography a different way. And so to hear how they heard it differently, I was like, ‘Ooooo.” That definitely forced me to open my ears more. And to phrase things different.
D: Their interpretation or translation of it…
LB: Yeah.
D: Okay, so let’s switch gears a bit and talk directing. So what pulled you into directing? What was the attraction to that creative platform?...
LB: So I think I always wanted to be a director without knowing that. Because when I look back at how I used to videotape things when I had a camera, it’s the movement in the camera. I’ve always had a—what’s the word?—I’ve always seen things out of a different lens than a lot of people. And when Hype Williams was shooting videos, and the way Spike Lee was shooting his movies, it always grabbed me different. Because the way they captured things, the way the camera moved, or the way the shots worked, it always inspired me. I would attach that to how I see things. And how I would want to put it out. You feel me?
D: Got it.
LB: I was always framing things a certain way without knowing that’s what I was doing…subconsciously. So definitely inspired director-wise by Spike Lee and Hype Williams. 1000%. And Director X—that’s my friend. Definitely by him, too. But more Hype Williams. Jesus. Hype Williams and Spike Lee?!!! Yeah…1000%.
D: Spike Lee is phenomenal. Even the stuff that he did for Nike, with Michael Jordan…
LB: Yeah!
D: …With his Mars Blackmon character, from the She’s Gotta Have It film.
LB: Yeppp.
D: That was really revolutionary, especially in the world of commercials…
LB: Yep, yep.
D: Just amazing. As I think about the dynamics of the camera, and when you’re doing a piece of choreography for the stage, you’re playing to an audience directly in front of the stage. They’re a fixed point, right? But with “So You Think You Can Dance?” you throw the cameras into that. So are you always thinking about the cameras?…
LB: 100,000%. What is cool is, we have such a cool relationship now with So You Think. So whoever is directing those episodes, we always connect right before we do the run-through. And most of the time I tape it how I see it in my rehearsal anyway. I tape it, and then I show the director how I see the shots. And so they kind of get an idea of where I wanna go. And sometimes they get the exact same shots. Especially for that “Yummy” performance…
D: Exactly.
LB: …I showed the director where I want the camera, who I want to zoom in on here. Then take the camera and move around this way. The low angle on this part. I’m super diligent about that...
D: Yeah, that moment in the “Yummy” piece we were talking about earlier. I think the camera maybe even moves in on that moment where he steps out and does his solo within that group performance…
LB: Yes!
D: I was wondering about it—the role of the camera—because I watch the show and I go, ‘Okay, sometimes I would love to see the performance as an audience member.’ Because that’s totally different than how you would see it as a viewer at home…
LB: Oh, totally. Totally different.
D: …And then now, as a film director, you’re still doing the choreography, but now you’re also in charge of the camera. So you get to control that interplay between what the camera is doing and what the dancers or actors are doing…
LB: Yeah, u-huh. Yep, yep, yep.
D: Just adds another level, right?
LB: It adds a whole other dynamic. Because it takes it up. It’s so crazy, the angle you shoot—especially some of this dance stuff—it can either make the choreography incredible, or it can make it touch your heart, or it can be flat…as fuck.
D: I can see that. Because you can take the torque out of a piece if the camera’s doing the wrong thing...
LB: Yesss. It changes it all. Like sometimes you need to add some movement to your lens to capture what’s already moving and it amplifies it. Or if you—like when people use a crane—if the crane is moving too slow it defeats the purpose…
D: It could deflate a move…
LB: Yeeaaah. It’s just funny how, all those things matter. And I might not know some of the technical moves. But I know when it’s right, and I know when it’s wrong.
D: Yep…
LB: It just feels a certain way. And if I don’t scream, ‘Ooooo that’s it!’ it means it wasn’t it.
D: (Laughs) So for your directing, you’re working with the production company Spittn' Image, right?
LB: Ooooo! Those guys…I love them.
D: …Yeah, they’re a world-class production company. And you’re working with Shawnette Heard? You’d been working with her before on some projects?
LB: Oh my God, yes! Shawnette is…Number one—I looked up to Shawnette before, because Janet [Jackson] was one of my…that’s the first album I bought with my lunch money at school. So I was watching Shawnette on TV, and on tour. Like, ‘This black girl Is everyTHING!’
D: (Laughs)
LB: She represented the ‘hood, but she represented it for Janet. Which was major pop on the major Queen level…period. And she was up there with grace, and confidence, and we were all looking at her like: ‘Whoa, she makes people’s dreams come true!’ To be real. So I’ve always looked up to Shawnette. To even connect with her, to be able to do this, and to work with her company like this, it was insane. And Melissa, her wife, she’s everything. She’s East Coast, so she gets the vibe. She totally gets it. So it’s kind of, like, a perfect situation.
D: I bet. I can imagine. So are you getting to collaborate with her on projects?
LB: The first time that we worked together, I was doing this video for this girl Chonique [Sneed], who was one of my friends, but she’s also a choreographer, and we’re doing something for Monsters of Hip Hop. We’re shooting a video. So I’d written this record, and we’re releasing it, and I was going to direct the video. And we were trying to figure out how this was going to work. Because she knew Shawnette. And she was like, ‘Shawnette—she and her wife have a production company. I think I want to try to see if we can work through them and see if they can produce it.’ And so we had a meeting. And I remember being nervous as shit…
D: (Laughs)
LB: …and I’m looking at Shawnette, like…’I’m sitting at this café talking to these legendary people right now.’ So we got the okay, and so now Shawnette was going to be the producer of the video I was directing. And so after I did that video, she was like, ‘Yo, you know, if you’re doing other stuff, or if I have stuff coming up, maybe you could write for it as a director?’ And at that point I was writing some music, kind of in-between choreography, and I was writing some records, and I was like, shit, I want to direct some of these videos…because the songs are coming out of my heart, so I knew what I felt and I wanted to capture it in a certain way. And Shawnette ended up producing all the videos that I was directing for my project. So we were collabing in that sense. And the more we did that, the more we understood each other. And she was bringing me in on stuff that she was directing, and she was, ‘hey, you wanna, we could direct this together.’
D: That’s cool.
LB: And so there were a couple jobs we did like that, and we worked super well with each other. And we’d get it done, and the vibe is crazy. It’s crazy because what she’s strong at, I’m not, and so she just gets it. We just make it work. That’s how we were able to collab on some stuff…
D: Yeah, that dynamic.
LB: …and so now we’re here.
D: Well that’s amazing. And by the way—your music. I’d put any of those songs on my playlist. I spent a lot of time going through your Downbeat Project pieces, wow.
LB: Thank you.
D: So was it, 'This is crazy doing all three things at once—writing the music, choreographing it, and directing the videos'—or was it perfect because ‘I’m doing this whole thing?...’
LB: It was a bit of both. But it was more on the other side because it was natural. ‘Cause I knew what I wanted to see. And I knew how I wanted to showcase the artists. I think naturally I like to A & R. I’m like a wannabe A & R (laughs). I know how to develop artists, so when I look at an artist I can already be like, ‘Okay, if you have this on and not that, and you sound better singing like this. If you put this and that and go with that look,’ I just know how to piece all that together. Naturally it’s just something that I always did. So I wrote the songs, and I’m seeing them sing it when we’re in the studio together, and, I’m like ‘Ooooo, I need to capture you like this. Because the world don’t know that you look like this and be like that. Let me put you here, or put you on top of this thing, and kind of show you in a whole other light.’
D: Speaking of that, I have to talk to you about the “Daaas it” video.
LB: Yes (laughs)…yes!
D: …Especially that director’s cut…
LB: (Laughs)
D: That…blew my mind. Miss Prissy, the Queen of Krump [thequeenofkrump ]. That was like…when I watched that, I was almost shaking. That just killed me. It was phenomenal...
LB: It’s crazy. It’s insane. The thing with Miss Prissy, I’ve known her for a lot of years, and she’s done music before. She did a lot of things. Number one—she’s the Queen of Krump. So on that level, there’s a whole other respect for her on that end. And then, artistically, she can sing and she can rap. Crazy.
D: I know, right?
LB: Yeah, that’s the thing. When I had written that ‘Daaas It’ record, I didn’t even know who I wrote it for. I just wrote it. Everybody in New York is saying ‘Dass it.’ I was like, I just want to say ‘Daaas it’ five times. Do it as a joke. Like, ‘Daaas it, daaas it, daaas it...’
D: (Laughs)
LB: Then I got my friend covering the booth. I tell him: say ‘Daaas it.’ Just drag it out. Say it short. Say it long. Stretch it in. Stretch it out. And we recorded it. And I wrote the record. And with Prissy, I think I was getting her to demo some other songs for me, and I was like, ‘Priss, I got this record. If you can come and demo it for me, that’d be great.’ So she met me at the studio and I taught her this song. And tweaked it. And tweaked her voice. And calmed her down. And got the record out. And then later on, I actually gave it to somebody else. But then I was like, ‘U-uh, the justice isn’t done. I need to make Prissy do this, and make this her actual record.’ And so we went back in and re-recorded it, and made her like do it, do it, do it, you know?...
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D: Cool. So what’s the story behind the director’s cut then?
LB: The directors cut? Well, first of all, I shot the regular video and then the directors cut. Her movement is so raw. And I was like, ‘Priss…I want people to see your artistry on another level. We know you can freestyle, and we know you can krump, and you can battle it…’
D: Oh yeah…
LB: Because I told her—this whole thing I want it to be in water. I want you to feel like you’re…in water. So you have to slow everything down. I want everything…to move…oozy.
D: Oh, cool.
LB: So I said, ‘Give me everything that you do, but I want it to feel oozy.’ And I wanted to capture it just…straight.
D: Yeah.
LB: Like, I wasn’t trying to do no crazy camera movement, or none of that. I just wanted to capture the rawness of it. I slowed her allll the way down, and she…delivered that shit. And it just connected them—the song, the lyrics, and how she was moving. I said, ‘Fuck this, I have to do a director’s cut—
D: Oh yeah…
LB:—where they just see you moving the way you move. It captures…all of that…
D: That film is like…one of my favorite things that I’ve ever seen in my life…
LB: Awww, man…thank you....
D: I mean, I was so moved by that piece. I loved the regular version of what you did. But that director’s cut…just the judgment and the creative choice of just simplifying it…
LB: Yes.
D:…and just letting that come forward. She’s like one of the most captivating people I’ve ever seen…
LB: Literally. I said ‘Priss, I need to watch it and feel like when I was looking at Grace Jones.’ Like Grace Jones is so striking.
D: Yeah, I could see Grace Jones, too. Yeah, absolutely.
LB: I was like, ‘I just need to feel this rawness, but this beauty, too, you know?’
D: Yeah, yeah. I mean, she’s a performer, right? So you’ve got, obviously, her dance skills. But the facial expressions, too, are…
LB: It’s so…ooooo. It’s so raw.
D: …(pause)…
…Yeah…
LB: Yeah.
D: I know. I’m almost speechless thinking about it.
LB: (Laughs)
D: Geez, yeah. So you were directing her to feel like she’s in water. Do you have things like that—when you’re going in there and working with dancers and filming something—do you have interesting tricks or techniques you do to capture moments on film, or to get what you need out of performers?
LB: I always coach them while it’s happening. I’ll just scream it out….
D: Sure…
LB: I just scream it out, and just take them there…
D: Yeah, right. The reason I ask that is that every now and then I’ll come across something interesting that someone does. I worked with this director one time, Mac Premo, who used to be a skateboarder [ @macpremo ]. And he had this dolly move that he created using the skateboard. So a couple times he would ride in on his skateboard and then he would curve around the actor while he’s holding the camera...
LB: That’s fly. That’s fly..that’s super fly.
D: Just stuff like that, you know, that I always find to be fascinating that artists do sometimes...
LB: That is super fly.
D: Yeah. It really is. So what else is happening right now? Any projects you’re particularly excited about?...
LB: Right now, we’ve got stuff coming up. But a lot of the stuff we were doing before with Gwen, the festivals, being back in Vegas, is on pause.
D: Of course, that makes sense.
LB: I'm looking forward to working on some upcoming, high-profile, A-List tours that I can't mention right now...
D: That’s exciting. Well I can’t wait to see it.
LB: …And with directorial stuff, there’s some videos I’m writing some stuff for right now that I’m looking forward to…
D: Nice. I can’t wait. Okay, so my last question. I wanted to ask you about other stuff you’re into. Our platform, monolisticle.com, is all about featuring the best things in whatever category of culture it is. And I wanted to ask you if there’s anything cool that you’re really into, or love, that’s maybe off the beaten path that you would recommend. Like a favorite place to eat. A hidden gem kind of thing…
LB: A hidden gem? Okay, out here in LA there is a place called ‘Wi Jammin.’ It’s on Redondo and Pico. It is…authentic…Jamaican.
D: Sounds amazing…
LB: Oh my God I miss my culture so much! When I get on a call with anybody Jamaican, I become Jamaican Louie, you know?
D: (Laughs) I totally get it…
LB: Everything…‘epic.’ Everything…‘nice.’ (laughs)
D: Well, one of my best friends growing up, his mother is from Jamaica. And she had the best expressions…
LB: (Laughs) Those are my people. Oh, we got them for daaays.
D: You’re a foodie, right?
LB: Of course I’m a foodie! I’m an aspiring chef.
D: Me, too.
LB: I cook it up. I cook it up! I’m always trying a new thing. Learning some new techniques. I just bought some pots and shit, look at me.
D: Really?
LB: I’m going to have to cook…it…up!
D: (Laughs)
LB: Yeah, ‘Wi Jammin.’ That place. Sometimes they don’t even look at you when you order. Sometimes they don’t hear you. It’s perfect!
D: I love that kind of place. It’s like, ‘We’re all here just sharing this love of food.”
LB: Yes! And if you go to New York, you’ve got to go to Negril. In The Village. Every blood-clot thing. You hear me? Everything!
D: (Laughs) That’s awesome, thank you. I will check those both out next time I’m out there. I’m always looking for great food, and I love Jamaican. But hey, thank you. I appreciate your time. This has been great being able to talk with you…
LB: Thank you! It’s a good time, yeah. Good vibes!
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